Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
By: Lizard King to Derision on Mon Oct 22 2018 23:12:45

You'd never know it from listening to the news, but firearms-related violence has decreased by about 50% since the 1990s, while at the same time (this part they report on accurately) gun laws have loosened somewhat across most of the country.

I'm curious as to how many crimes, gun-related or otherwise, are actually thwarted due to a citizen having or using a gun. I'm not for or against them -- personally, I'm not into guns but if someone else is, then that's their right -- but the argument you hear most is that it's useful for self-defence, or the oft-regurgitated "the only way to stop a criminal with a gun is a law-abiding citizen with a gun" argument, but I haven't actually seen hard numbers regarding how often such a thing is useful or has actually made a difference.

---
■ Synchronet ■ Amiga City - The BBS for the Amiga - more than 2,500+ files

Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
By: Nightfox to Lizard King on Tue Oct 23 2018 10:19:45

One time I had a car broken into (I found out afterwards when I went to get in my car), and they had broken a window and tore the face off the stereo. It wasn't even a detachable face.. I was frustrated but thought it was funny at the same time, that they broke into a car and stole a car stereo face that would probably be no good for them because it wasn't designed to be detachable. But then I had to get my car window replaced and buy a new stereo..

I've been pretty lucky considering some of the places I've lived... I've only had a car broken into once, and it was after I bought another car so I didn't notice right away. They left the door open, so the battery was dead. They stole the radio and my collection of cassette tapes, which really pissed me off because they weren't really worth much but would cost a lot of money to replace. That annoyed me until I got a CD player in my car. (I haven't played a tape since.)

//lizard_king

---
■ Synchronet ■ Retro Underground - retrounderground.org:6423

Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
By: Lizard King to Nightfox on Tue Oct 23 2018 05:18 pm

didn't notice right away. They left the door open, so the battery was dead. They stole the radio and my collection of cassette tapes, which really pissed me off because they weren't really worth much but would cost a lot of money to replace. That annoyed me until I got a CD player in my car. (I haven't played a tape since.)

around my area gangs of kids break into cars and go joy riding. people often keep a set of keys in their cars according to the police officer they talked to. i think that's just stupid.

my buddy who is an idiot blew his engine and has had his car rot in his girlfriends parking lot for 8 months. she has a cleaning business and had her door unlocked on her car [probably because she was drunk], and her clients keys were taken along with my buddy's car key. they thought they hit the jackpot! they put the key in and some protection feature locked the key in there because his battery was disconnected. the rest of the keys they threw into the dirt. ---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
By: Derision to Lizard King on Tue Oct 23 2018 17:08:57

I'm curious as to how many crimes, gun-related or otherwise, are actually thwarted due to a citizen having or using a gun. I'm not for or against them -- personally, I'm not into guns but if someone else is, then that's their right -- but the argument you hear most is that it's useful for self-defence, or the oft-regurgitated "the only way to stop a criminal with a gun is a law-abiding citizen with a gun" argument, but I haven't actually seen hard numbers regarding how often such a thing is useful or has actually made a difference.

The trouble with this is that these incidents are not generally reported, so no one tracks them. I can tell you that it IS generally understood by police, particularly in rural areas, that citizens use firearms to protect themselves and it's even encouraged.

For instance, about 15 years back I was living on 5 acres of property -- on the property I had a detached office which had once been someone's hunting cabin. It was, of course, full of computers, and I had an alarm system installed.

This particular day at about 7am the phone rang, and it was the police. They'd received an alert from the security company that the alarm in my office was going off. I thought it was odd they were calling and the conversation went something like this:

"So... how long do you think it will take an officer to get out here to check it out?"
"We're stretched pretty thin. Probably about an hour."
"Whatever is happening will be over in an hour."
"Yes, that is probably true."
"I'm going to grab a shotgun and walk up and check it out."
"Okay. Be careful, sir."
"Always."

It turned out there was no burglar; motion sensor fell off the wall.

I also know a guy who was approached by two men in a dark parking lot, unholstered his pistol and chambered a round. The two men, without saying a word, turned around and left.

I suspect these things happen all the time in places it's legal for regular people to own guns.

//lizard_king

---
■ Synchronet ■ Retro Underground - retrounderground.org:6423

Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
By: Lizard King to Derision on Tue Oct 23 2018 18:32:16

The trouble with this is that these incidents are not generally reported, so no one tracks them. I can tell you that it IS generally understood by police, particularly in rural areas, that citizens use firearms to protect themselves and it's even encouraged.

I also know a guy who was approached by two men in a dark parking lot, unholstered his pistol and chambered a round. The two men, without saying a word, turned around and left.

I suspect these things happen all the time in places it's legal for regular people to own guns.

Good point. My first job, years ago, was actually as a safe driller. I'd go to banks and break into their safes or safe deposit boxes when someone lost a combination or a key, or if someone hadn't paid up on their safe deposit box. I was NOT a safe cracker or manipulator... in other words, if I got the thing open, you probably weren't going to be able to use the same lock (unless it was a Mosler, those were easy).

EITHER WAY... because of this, I had pretty much every tool that you'd need to brute-force your way into a bank. Because we often had to work in, er, unfortunate parts of town, and outside a lot (night drops, that sort of thing), a lot of the guys I worked with carried. I didn't -- I DID have (and still do have) an old replica M-1911A pistol, which isn't real but is metal and is entirely convincing (and which would probably get me shot if I kept it in the car today), though I never actually had to show it. Generally, I was a fair bit bigger than people that'd start approaching, and they'd turn around as soon as I'd stand up and make eye contact. I can see how it'd be useful in certain situations, though.

---
■ Synchronet ■ Amiga City - The BBS for the Amiga - more than 2,500+ files

Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
By: Derision to Lizard King on Wed Oct 24 2018 13:44:23

EITHER WAY... because of this, I had pretty much every tool that you'd need to brute-force your way into a bank. Because we often had to work in, er,

Did you ever have the cops show up in the middle of this? That would have been an interesting conversation. :)

//lizard_king

---
■ Synchronet ■ Retro Underground - retrounderground.org:6423

Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
By: Lizard King to Derision on Thu Oct 25 2018 07:25 pm

Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
By: Derision to Lizard King on Wed Oct 24 2018 13:44:23

EITHER WAY... because of this, I had pretty much every tool that you'd need to brute-force your way into a bank. Because we often had to work in, er,

Did you ever have the cops show up in the middle of this? That would have been an interesting conversation. :)

just recently we had a chase bank get sued from the owner of the building they were renting, safe deposit boxes and vaults and all.

they left when their lease was up but not before hiring a guy to do 2 million dollars worth of damage to the safe deposit boxes. they had them drilled out to get the left behind items that people didnt claim.

http://i.imgur.com/exnGlRq.png
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
By: MRO to Lizard King on Fri Oct 26 2018 00:54:16

they left when their lease was up but not before hiring a guy to do 2 million dollars worth of damage to the safe deposit boxes. they had them drilled out to get the left behind items that people didnt claim.

Yikes! Hard to know what the right thing to do was in that situation, but it's hard to believe there wasn't an option that didn't involve getting sued for $2M. Maybe that's pocket change to Chase, though, and I suppose they have lawyers on staff.

I'd hate to be the guy who is just trying to make ends meet doing stuff like that, though, and will now be dragged into court to testify about who told him what and when.

//lizard_king

---
■ Synchronet ■ Retro Underground - retrounderground.org:6423

Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
By: Lizard King to Derision on Thu Oct 25 2018 19:25:02

EITHER WAY... because of this, I had pretty much every tool that you'd need to brute-force your way into a bank. Because we often had to work

Did you ever have the cops show up in the middle of this? That would have been an interesting conversation. :)

I have! Generally they were notified in advance if we had to do something like that. I remember a few times being in a bad part of town, and asking the police "aren't you going to, like, supervise or keep watch?" only to have them reply, "Hell no! I'm not standing outside in this part of town. I'll be in the car over there!"

More interesting was if I ever got pulled over, and I'd have to explain that I had "equipment" in the trunk, which would raise a few eyebrows and generally ended with me getting searched before being eventually sent on my way.

---
■ Synchronet ■ Amiga City - The BBS for the Amiga - more than 2,500+ files

Re: Re: Anyone out there have any?
By: MRO to Lizard King on Fri Oct 26 2018 00:54:16

just recently we had a chase bank get sued from the owner of the building they were renting, safe deposit boxes and vaults and all.

they left when their lease was up but not before hiring a guy to do 2 million dollars worth of damage to the safe deposit boxes. they had them drilled out to get the left behind items that people didnt claim.

That's what I used to do. Banks really, really want that stuff. I think, honestly, they probably make more money auctioning off unclaimed safe deposit stuff than they do just on safe deposit rental fees. And you'd be amazed at what kind of stuff people "forget" to claim in their boxes.

---
■ Synchronet ■ Amiga City - The BBS for the Amiga - more than 2,500+ files