What was your favourite distro in 2017 ?

Ubuntu, mint, elementary, kali, etc ?

will you miss unity ?

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Re: distro
By: Ennev to All on Tue Dec 19 2017 10:47:11

What was your favourite distro in 2017 ?

Antergos would make that list for me this year. Based off of Arch Linux, but installers is scripted and saves me from making a lot of configuration mistakes.

will you miss unity ?

No, I will not miss Unity. I hadn't used Unity since I changed over Arch Linux and Antergos years ago. XFCE for me...

-jag
Code it, Script it, Automate it!

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Re: distro
By: Ennev to All on Tue Dec 19 2017 10:47 am

What was your favourite distro in 2017 ?

Ubuntu, mint, elementary, kali, etc ?

I suppose my favorite distro right now is Mint. I like its Cinnamon user interface. That and the OS overall seems fairly clean and works well.

will you miss unity ?

Miss? Is Unity going away? I'd hope so.. I never really liked Unity.

Nightfox

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Re: distro
By: Jagossel to Ennev on Tue Dec 19 2017 11:00 am

Re: distro
By: Ennev to All on Tue Dec 19 2017 10:47:11

What was your favourite distro in 2017 ?

Antergos would make that list for me this year. Based off of Arch Linux, but installers is scripted and saves me from making a lot of configuration mistakes.

will you miss unity ?

No, I will not miss Unity. I hadn't used Unity since I changed over Arch Linux and Antergos years ago. XFCE for me...

i cant stand any linux gui, but i can tollerate xfce
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Re: distro
By: KK4QBN to Nightfox on Tue Dec 19 2017 06:04 pm

Miss? Is Unity going away? I'd hope so.. I
never really liked Unity.

Oh yeah. Cananocial (sp) is trashing unity.. its all a money thing too.. Oh yeah. Cananocial (sp) and M$
has something to do with it.. this is not some tinfoil hat theory either.. came straight from a board meeting press release..

I thought Unity was probably an open-source thing. I didn't think it would be there to make money.

And I know Microsoft has been supporting Linux more these days, but I didn't think they were involved in any Linux distros or UI environments for Linux.

Nightfox

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What was your favourite distro in 2017 ?
Ubuntu, mint, elementary, kali, etc ?
will you miss unity ?

Same as every year, debian. :) I use icewm, so I won't miss unity.

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Re: distro
By: KK4QBN to Nightfox on Tue Dec 19 2017 06:04 pm

Oh yeah. Cananocial <sp>> is trashing unity.. its all a money thing too..
Oh yeah. Cananocial <sp>> and M$

has something to do with it.. this is not some tinfoil hat theory either.. came straight from a board meeting press release..

I was never a fan. Although I like the idea of a window environment which uses the sides for status bars (since widescreen monitors have more space available)

I still use Lubuntu - started with single-core Thinkpad laptops that needed a lightweight WM, but still use it on dual core systems with 8 GB of RAM.

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Re: distro
By: KK4QBN to Nightfox on Tue Dec 19 2017 10:02 pm

And I know Microsoft has been supporting Linux more these days, but
I didn't think they were involved in any Linux distros or UI
environments for Linux.

and truly I think its more about MS wanting to nudge them into having GNOME only instead of giving choices of WM so when the cloud is implemented MS will not have to support so many envirnonments.

I could understand that though.. I suppose I'd have to read up on this more, because I'm surprised to hear about Microsoft's interest in Ubuntu, and I'm wondering why that distribution specifically (maybe because it's one of the most popular, or the most popular)?

I did wonder about Microsoft's intentions when they started supporting Linux more (I've heard of them releasing some version of Visual Studio and possibly some other of their tools for Linux).

Nightfox

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Re: distro
By: KK4QBN to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Dec 19 2017 10:06 pm

I like Lubuntu, and I'm dual booting XP and PUPPY on one of my older machines.. well theyre all old by todays standards, but this tower has a sticker on it that says "optimized for AOL" i've put 2 more hdd in it and

I remember when PC cases had a square indentation on them where you (or a PC builder) could put a case sticker. Not sure if the "optimized for AOL" is one of those square ones though? I somewhat miss those case stickers.. It was a way to sort of "brand" your PC or show your use of Intel/AMD CPU or Nvidia/ATI grpahics card, etc.. One time, I saw a seller on eBay selling some custom PC case stickers with the Intel or AMD logo (available with both) with "Fast As F*ck" written below the logo.

Nightfox

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Re: distro
By: KK4QBN to Nightfox on Wed Dec 20 2017 07:18:06

I did wonder about Microsoft's intentions when they started supporting Linux more (I've heard of them releasing some version of Visual Studio possibly some other of their tools for Linux).

I'm speculating but, I wonder if tyhey don't try to buy out what they can of canonical. I know only so much can be done, because in this case hopefully t GNU/GPL license will protect us. but as you said, what are their intententio I know it's not to make linux and windows more "interoperable" bcause still, being the business man he is would much rather see any open source shut down tightly, so I would have to believe it's something more sinister in the long run. and Shuttleworth is really just seeing $$$ in is eyes, but us not looki to far in the future.

There is a partnership between Microsoft and Canonical, Ltd. I do see Microsoft muddeling platforms with .NET Core, PowerShell Core, SQL Server 2017, and WSL (the ability to run ELF binaries on Windows). I'm not sure of their intentions, but if it is to shut down Linux or open source, it'll be a daring and stupid move. Especially when .NET Core, PowerShell Core, ASP.NET Core, EntityFramework, MSBuild, Roslyn, and et al, are open source as well.

Seriously, Microsoft has a lot repositories on GitHub, and non-Microsoft employees are contributing to these repositories.

-jag
Code it, Script it, Automate it!
/

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Re: distro
By: KK4QBN to Nightfox on Wed Dec 20 2017 07:18:06

I did wonder about Microsoft's intentions when they started supporting Linux more (I've heard of them releasing some version of Visual Studio possibly some other of their tools for Linux).

I'm speculating but, I wonder if tyhey don't try to buy out what they can of canonical. I know only so much can be done, because in this case hopefully t GNU/GPL license will protect us. but as you said, what are their intententio I know it's not to make linux and windows more "interoperable" bcause still, being the business man he is would much rather see any open source shut down tightly, so I would have to believe it's something more sinister in the long run. and Shuttleworth is really just seeing $$$ in is eyes, but us not looki to far in the future.

Thinking about this further, and I wonder if it is really this case (from an article that had heard rumors of making Windows open source) is really true: Microsoft makes more money from Azure (their cloud offering) than Windows. If that is the case, it could make sense why they muddeling the platforms all together.

-jag
Code it, Script it, Automate it!

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Re: distro
By: KK4QBN to Jagossel on Wed Dec 20 2017 04:31 pm

and truthfully, I can not EVER recall a time i've paid for windows, unless I have purchases a BRAND NEW computer and was forced to pay for it. every other distro I have downloaded from the MS site and had a VALID MS OEM code for it.

Are you saying Microsoft has had Windows available to download from their site with free valid license keys?

Nightfox

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Re: distro
By: KK4QBN to Jagossel on Wed Dec 20 2017 04:36 pm

and thruthfuly.. the OS *should* be free.. the OS is the core of the machine.. it's what make it work...

I'm not sure the OS should always be free.. An OS is a piece of software, a product that someone (or a team of people) has put time and effort into developing, like any other product. Microsoft historically has been a software company, and if they choose to sell their software for a profit (including their OS), I don't see a problem with that. You don't have to pay an outrageous price for Windows either - You can find OEM copies to buy online for around $70 to $120 or so. Only in the past few years has Microsoft started to make their own computers.

Apple no longer charges for OS X, but Apple's main source of revenue is their hardware (computers, iPhone, and iPod). I remember even reading a quote where someone at Apple said they want to be mainly a hardware company. They restrict OS X to install on Macs, so they sell their Macs and include the OS for free. I remember when they used to sell their OS though.. Back in the day, a new major version of OS X would cost around $150 (I think), which was about on par with an OEM copy of Windows.

Nightfox

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Re: distro
By: Nightfox to KK4QBN on Tue Dec 19 2017 10:52 pm

I remember when PC cases had a square indentation on them where you (or a PC builder) could put a case sticker. Not sure if the "optimized for AOL" is one of those square ones though?

I had an old IBM 5150 sticker on one of my clone cases. The 5150 was the PC XT, I believe.

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Re: distro
By: KK4QBN to Nightfox on Wed Dec 20 2017 07:18 am

I did wonder about Microsoft's intentions when they started
supporting Linux more (I've heard of them releasing some version of
Visual Studio and possibly some other of their tools for Linux).

MS contributed $500,000 to Linux last I heard, MS is interested in Linux Cloud and Server, I doubt they will ever want anything to do with Linux as a desktop.
I am an Ubuntu guy and use it to run my VPS game servers and also my Raspberry PI game console that runs many emulators.

"... Experience: a name everyone gives to his/her mistakes."

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Re: distro
By: Nightfox to KK4QBN on Wed Dec 20 2017 15:07:45

and truthfully, I can not EVER recall a time i've paid for windows, unl I have purchases a BRAND NEW computer and was forced to pay for it. eve other distro I have downloaded from the MS site and had a VALID MS OEM code for it.

Are you saying Microsoft has had Windows available to download from their si with free valid license keys?

Remember that period of time where Microsoft made a big push for every one to upgrade to Windows 10 by requiring it and making it free?

-jag
Code it, Script it, Automate it!

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Re: distro
By: Nightfox to KK4QBN on Wed Dec 20 2017 15:12:41

and thruthfuly.. the OS *should* be free.. the OS is the core of the machine.. it's what make it work...

I'm not sure the OS should always be free.. An OS is a piece of software, a product that someone (or a team of people) has put time and effort into developing, like any other product. Microsoft historically has been a softw company, and if they choose to sell their software for a profit (including their OS), I don't see a problem with that. You don't have to pay an outrageous price for Windows either - You can find OEM copies to buy online around $70 to $120 or so. Only in the past few years has Microsoft started make their own computers.

I agree with Nightfox on this point: OSes shouldn't always be free. If there are developers who are good at what they do, they should be paid for it. Closed or open source alike.

However, if the developer spends their spare time writing up free or open source software, more power to them. Linux is just a kernel that help run the GNU software, done by one person, who now runs a corporation dedicated to improvimg the kernel. Same thing with FreeDOS and ReactOS. I love FreeDOS, and I hope ReactOS can continue to improve and get to the point of being stable
and really take off.

-jag
Code it, Script it, Automate it!

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I thought Unity was probably an open-source thing. I didn't think it would be there to make money.

Unity was also to be that thing that would work on phone, tablet etc. Never happened.

Myself I was fine with Unity it worked. Wasn't dramatically different to wow me, gnome feel like a step back.

Let's bring LCARS

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I could understand that though.. I suppose I'd have to read up on this more, because I'm surprised to hear about Microsoft's interest in Ubuntu, and I'm wondering why that distribution specifically (maybe because it's
one of the most popular, or the most popular)?

I did wonder about Microsoft's intentions when they started supporting
Linux more (I've heard of them releasing some version of Visual Studio and possibly some other of their tools for Linux).

One thing is sure, is that Microsoft is a contributor to the Linux kernel.
It's been happening for quite a while now.

Last year we also saw the introduction of Bash for windows. Which is not an emulation but it supported natively. Makes you wonder about the future of PowerShell.

Also MS SQL is now available on Linux too.

I guess linux being less resource intensive live better on the cloud,
Microsoft being more and more focusing on Azure it probably makes sense.

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However, if the developer spends their spare time writing up free or open source software, more power to them. Linux is just a kernel that help run the GNU software, done by one person, who now runs a corporation dedicated to improvimg the kernel. Same thing with FreeDOS and ReactOS. I love FreeDOS, and I hope ReactOS can continue to improve and get to the point of being stable and really take off.

Well the weird things with open source is that a lot of corporation contribute to it. Still it's open source and free for the others to use and improve on
it.

Safari and chrome ( midori too ) are powered by Webkit which is open source
yet created by Apple then open sourced. Like the Swift language.

Another big example is Hadoop, being developed by Yahoo it had been given to Apache. Now companies strive on this (cloudera, horton) and in return also contribute back to the code.

As long as they respect the GNU or Apache licence I have no problem with corporations to contribute to the open source world. It's the least they can do.

It's more sad when we see the reverse with what happened to mysql.

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Re: distro
By: KK4QBN to Denn on Thu Dec 21 2017 04:29 am

and if they end up dropping the flavors like lubuntu, mate, kubuntu, etc.. so they will only have the origina ubuntu to keep up with azure, you'll never see me go back to ubuntuland. right now I'm happy as hell with the Debian version of Mint.

The nice thing about Debian is that it's the basis for so many other distros. You could go from distro to distro and have the guts be the same.

Get rid of Lubuntu? Roll your own LXDE and lightweight apps.

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Re: Re: distro
By: Ennev to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 07:34 am

Last year we also saw the introduction of Bash for windows. Which is not an emulation but it supported natively. Makes you wonder about the future of PowerShell.

Powershell seems to be more of an adjunct to the OS and AD than a general purpose programming language.

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Re: distro
By: Jagossel to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 06:50 am

Re: distro
By: Nightfox to KK4QBN on Wed Dec 20 2017 15:07:45

and truthfully, I can not EVER recall a time i've paid for windows, unl I have purchases a BRAND NEW computer and was forced to pay for it. eve other distro I have downloaded from the MS site and had a VALID MS OEM code for it.

Are you saying Microsoft has had Windows available to download from their si with free valid license keys?

Remember that period of time where Microsoft made a big push for every one to upgrade to Windows 10 by requiring it and making it free?

i dont remember 'requiring' it. but i remember there were free upgrades for a period. i tried the free upgrade and it failed with some obscure error code, so that computer didnt get it.
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Re: distro
By: MRO to Jagossel on Thu Dec 21 2017 10:06:13

Remember that period of time where Microsoft made a big push for every on to upgrade to Windows 10 by requiring it and making it free?

i dont remember 'requiring' it. but i remember there were free upgrades for period. i tried the free upgrade and it failed with some obscure error code, that computer didnt get it.

What would be a better choice of word to where Microsoft attempted to block all efforts from users getting rid of the "Upgrade to Windows 10" pop-up ads?

Forcing, strong-arming, pushing, craming it down our throughts?

-jag
Code it, Script it, Automate it!

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Re: Re: distro
By: Ennev to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 07:34 am

Last year we also saw the introduction of Bash for windows. Which is not an emulation but it supported natively. Makes you wonder about the future of PowerShell.

You know what's funny about that Ubuntu/bash for Windows 10? It includes gcc. So the only C compiler that comes *with* Windows cannot compile Windows programs. The irony.

digital man

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Re: distro
By: Jagossel to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 06:50 am

Are you saying Microsoft has had Windows available to download from
their si with free valid license keys?

Remember that period of time where Microsoft made a big push for every one to upgrade to Windows 10 by requiring it and making it free?

Yes, I remember that.

Nightfox

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Re: distro
By: Jagossel to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 06:59 am

I agree with Nightfox on this point: OSes shouldn't always be free. If there are developers who are good at what they do, they should be paid for it. Closed or open source alike.

However, if the developer spends their spare time writing up free or open source software, more power to them. Linux is just a kernel that help run the GNU software, done by one person, who now runs a corporation dedicated to improvimg the kernel. Same thing with FreeDOS and ReactOS. I love FreeDOS, and I hope ReactOS can continue to improve and get to the point of being stable and really take off.

I agree there too.
And I've been checking into ReactOS for the past 10 years or so, and in all that time, it's still in an 'alpha' state. I hope it will eventually reach a state where it's feature-complete and mature enough to run as an everyday OS. I'm a bit skeptical though, because they're basically reverse-engineering Windows, and some Windows programming APIs are undocumented. Microsoft (of course) knows how to use those APIs, but it might be difficult for the ReactOS developers to ensure it's 100% compatible with Windows.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: distro
By: Ennev to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 07:26 am

I thought Unity was probably an open-source thing. I didn't think it
would be there to make money.

Unity was also to be that thing that would work on phone, tablet etc. Never happened.

Myself I was fine with Unity it worked. Wasn't dramatically different to wow me, gnome feel like a step back.

Trying to be a mobile-like environment is what I didn't like about Unity. I actually like the classic Gnome-style interface on a desktop PC. I think it works well for a PC.

I'm curious what you liked about Unity that seemed like a step forward from Gnome?

Let's bring LCARS

yes.. I've actually seen some UI skins that look like LCARS..

Nightfox

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Re: Re: distro
By: Ennev to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 07:34 am

One thing is sure, is that Microsoft is a contributor to the Linux kernel. It's been happening for quite a while now.

I'm very suspicious of that. It makes me wonder what Microsoft is trying to do by contributing to Linux that way. Perhaps time will tell if they want to turn Linux to their advantage or if they really just want to contribute to Linux as an open-source OS.

Nightfox

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You know what's funny about that Ubuntu/bash for Windows 10? It includes gcc. So the only C compiler that comes *with* Windows cannot compile
Windows programs. The irony.

WOW

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I'm curious what you liked about Unity that seemed like a step forward from Gnome?

Maybe it's just impression, but recent graphic card (NVIDIA GeForce GT 755M graphics processor with 1GB of GDDR5 memory) it was very snappy with a lot of effect. Yes it was candy and i'm sorry for it :-) i'm the sucker that like
nice transparency effect and animation. The artwork was a bit better. But it's just a questions of skins i agree. I guess i'm lazy i don't have to tweak ubuntu 16.04 too much to get a nice shinny look.

Then again it's just my impression, i haven't spent too much time. Because in the end the time I spend on Linux is mostly trough an terminal screen on bash anyway. so it usually just an ssh or putty on a pc.

But when i crank a gui I did find unity pleasing. on lower spec machine like
my old netbook with an atom processor is lubunthu, maybe I'll put kali on it anyway because i usually use this machine just to check my network and people will freak when they see the default desktop image.

on my old ibm netvista ( that use to be my bbs ) i rock puppy Linux because even lubuntu is too much for it.

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I'm very suspicious of that. It makes me wonder what Microsoft is trying
to do by contributing to Linux that way. Perhaps time will tell if they want to turn Linux to their advantage or if they really just want to contribute to Linux as an open-source OS.

would be hard to sneak something in I guess, being "open-source" and on git, everybody can inspect the source code, usually tricks don't go unnoticed for too long.

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Re: distro
By: Jagossel to MRO on Thu Dec 21 2017 02:25 pm

What would be a better choice of word to where Microsoft attempted to block all efforts from users getting rid of the "Upgrade to Windows 10" pop-up ads?

Forcing, strong-arming, pushing, craming it down our throughts?

i never got raped in the ass by it. did you experience what you are talking about?

all i got was a little flag icon. now it's gone.
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Re: distro
By: Nightfox to Jagossel on Thu Dec 21 2017 11:48 am

And I've been checking into ReactOS for the past 10 years or so, and in all that time, it's still in an 'alpha' state. I hope it will eventually reach a state where it's feature-complete and mature enough to run as an everyday OS. I'm a bit skeptical though, because they're basically reverse-engineering Windows, and some Windows programming APIs are undocumented. Microsoft (of course) knows how to use those APIs, but it might be difficult for the ReactOS developers to ensure it's 100% compatible with Windows.

it's been like that since it came out. it's not going anywhere in terms of development.
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Re: Re: distro
By: Nightfox to Ennev on Thu Dec 21 2017 11:52 am

I'm very suspicious of that. It makes me wonder what Microsoft is trying to do by contributing to Linux that way. Perhaps time will tell if they want to turn Linux to their advantage or if they really just want to contribute to Linux as an open-source OS.

you should be more suspicious of the everyday linux contributers. those are the guys putting backdoors into shit that is putting us all at risk.
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Re: Re: distro
By: Ennev to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 04:25 pm

would be hard to sneak something in I guess, being "open-source" and on git, everybody can inspect the source code, usually tricks don't go unnoticed for too long.

HEARTBLEED
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@VIA: VERT
@MSGID: <5A39347F.1547.dove-unix@mtlgeek.synchro.net>
What was your favourite distro in 2017 ?

Ubuntu, mint, elementary, kali, etc ?

Slackware.

will you miss unity ?

Is that the "desktop manager/theme" part of Ubuntu? If so, I've seen it
but wasn't impressed. I use XFCE on Slackware.


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Re: Re: distro
By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 05:44 pm

I'm very suspicious of that. It makes me wonder what Microsoft is
trying to do by contributing to Linux that way. Perhaps time will
tell if they want to turn Linux to their advantage or if they really
just want to contribute to Linux as an open-source OS.

you should be more suspicious of the everyday linux contributers. those are the guys putting backdoors into shit that is putting us all at risk.

Are you wearing a tin foil hat, by chance?
One time I had a job interview and the interviewer asked what I thought about Linux. He told me he had more trust in Windows, because there's a small dedicated team of people who are paid to develop Windows, and he trusted that they'd make a good product. I guess there's some sense to that, but he also said that since Linux is free and open-source, he thought anyone could go and put malware in Linux. I hightly doubt that's the case.. My understanding is that there's a review process, and bad stuff would be caught fairly soon. I think the fact that Linux is open-source is one of its strengths - There are many developers contributing to it, probably far more than the number of people at any one company. Security holes seem to be fixed fairly quickly (I remember the 'Heartbleed' bug that was reported a couple years ago, and it was fixed fairly quick).

Nightfox

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Re: Re: distro
By: Digital Man to Ennev on Thu Dec 21 2017 11:53 am

You know what's funny about that Ubuntu/bash for Windows 10? It includes gcc. So the only C compiler that comes *with* Windows cannot compile Windows programs. The irony.

lol.. Although I wonder if it could at least compile a command-line application? Technically, such an application would be a Win32/Win64 application.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: distro
By: MRO to Ennev on Thu Dec 21 2017 05:46 pm

would be hard to sneak something in I guess, being "open-source" and
on git, everybody can inspect the source code, usually tricks don't go
unnoticed for too long.

HEARTBLEED

Heartbleed wasn't just in Linux though, it was in the OpenSSL library, which is available for pretty much any OS. And it wasn't something that someone "snuck in" as he was saying, it was a bug that went undiscovered for some time.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: distro
By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Dec 21 2017 06:47 pm

you should be more suspicious of the everyday linux contributers. those are the guys putting backdoors into shit that is putting us all at risk.

Are you wearing a tin foil hat, by chance?

looks like SOMEONE DOESNT PAY ATTENTION TO THE NEWS.

One time I had a job interview and the interviewer asked what I thought about Linux. He told me he had more trust in Windows, because there's a small dedicated team of people who are paid to develop Windows, and he trusted that they'd make a good product. I guess there's some sense to that, but he also said that since Linux is free and open-source, he thought anyone could go and put malware in Linux. I hightly doubt that's the case.. My understanding is that there's a review process, and bad stuff would be caught fairly soon. I think the fact that Linux is open-source is one of its strengths - There are many developers contributing to it, probably far more than the number of people at any one company. Security holes seem to be fixed fairly quickly (I remember the 'Heartbleed' bug that was reported a couple years ago, and it was fixed fairly quick).

So, heartbleed was fixed fairly quickly, eh? it can only be fixed if someone finds it. this one careless guy created a huge security issue that went on for more than 2 years.

open source is NOT a strength. it's a weakness. you are only as strong as your weakest link and open source software can have random unqualified 'contributers', messing with code. that's a fact.
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Re: Re: distro
By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Dec 21 2017 06:52 pm

Re: Re: distro
By: MRO to Ennev on Thu Dec 21 2017 05:46 pm

would be hard to sneak something in I guess, being "open-source" and
on git, everybody can inspect the source code, usually tricks don't go
unnoticed for too long.

HEARTBLEED

Heartbleed wasn't just in Linux though, it was in the OpenSSL library, which is available for pretty much any OS. And it wasn't something that someone "snuck in" as he was saying, it was a bug that went undiscovered for some time.

we were talking about open sourced software and how gee golly wonderful it is.

how do you know he didnt sneak it in?
you dont know him.
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Re: Re: distro
By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 10:24 pm

open source is NOT a strength. it's a weakness. you are only as strong as your weakest link and open source software can have random unqualified 'contributers', messing with code. that's a fact.

As has been stated already, I'm pretty sure Linux has a review process so that any random code doesn't permanently become part of Linux.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: distro
By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 10:25 pm

Heartbleed wasn't just in Linux though, it was in the OpenSSL library,
which is available for pretty much any OS. And it wasn't something
that someone "snuck in" as he was saying, it was a bug that went
undiscovered for some time.

we were talking about open sourced software and how gee golly wonderful it is.

how do you know he didnt sneak it in?
you dont know him.

How do you know he did? You don't know him.
Software bugs happen. I think it was more likely that it was a bug.

Nightfox

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■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

Re: Re: distro
By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 10:24 pm

So, heartbleed was fixed fairly quickly, eh? it can only be fixed if someone finds it. this one careless guy created a huge security issue that went on for more than 2 years.

It was fixed fairly quickly once it was discovered, yes. From what I heard, Heartbleed had exited for a while but was not discovered in that time. If nobody had discovered it yet, that meant it had not been exploited yet. And I saw there was a fix fairly soon after it was discovered.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: distro
By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Dec 21 2017 10:58 pm

Re: Re: distro
By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 10:24 pm

open source is NOT a strength. it's a weakness. you are only as strong as your weakest link and open source software can have random unqualified 'contributers', messing with code. that's a fact.

As has been stated already, I'm pretty sure Linux has a review process so that any random code doesn't permanently become part of Linux.

heartbleed. 2 years.
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Re: Re: distro
By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Dec 21 2017 10:59 pm

how do you know he didnt sneak it in?
you dont know him.

How do you know he did? You don't know him.

nobody knows him. so you cant say.

Software bugs happen. I think it was more likely that it was a bug.

why would it be more likely a bug and not something he got paid to put in there?
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Re: Re: distro
By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Dec 21 2017 11:04 pm

It was fixed fairly quickly once it was discovered, yes. From what I heard,

oh boy, good for us. it was ONLY 2 years.

Heartbleed had exited for a while but was not discovered in that time. If

i'm sure it was discovered.

nobody had discovered it yet, that meant it had not been exploited yet. And

hahaha

nobody had discovered it yet, that meant it had not been exploited yet. And I saw there was a fix fairly soon after it was discovered.

you are wayyyy too fucking trusting.
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Re: Re: distro
By: Nightfox to Digital Man on Thu Dec 21 2017 06:51 pm

Re: Re: distro
By: Digital Man to Ennev on Thu Dec 21 2017 11:53 am

You know what's funny about that Ubuntu/bash for Windows 10? It includes gcc. So the only C compiler that comes *with* Windows cannot compile Windows programs. The irony.

lol.. Although I wonder if it could at least compile a command-line application? Technically, such an application would be a Win32/Win64 application.

Yes, you can compile a command-line/console application (with the gcc included in the Ubuntu/bash package for Windows 10), but No, it does not generate a Win32/Win64 application.

Here an example 'file' output from a file built with gcc:

a.out: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.32, BuildID[sha1]=cc265875d07ab2d80e5c0a5c7543eca87a215d5d, not stripped

And here's one built on the same system using a Windows tool-chain (targeting Win32/GUI):

a.exe: PE32 executable (console) Intel 80386, for MS Windows

And targeting Win32/console:

a.exe: PE32 executable (GUI) Intel 80386, for MS Windows

So it really is a complete Linux environment inside Windows, not just another command shell.

digital man

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Re: distro
By: Gamgee to ENNEV on Thu Dec 21 2017 07:18 pm

Is that the "desktop manager/theme" part of Ubuntu? If so, I've seen it
but wasn't impressed. I use XFCE on Slackware.

I'm tempted to go back to some old school manager like fvwm now. Who needs eye candy?

---
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Re: Re: distro
By: MRO to Nightfox on Fri Dec 22 2017 01:40 am

Software bugs happen. I think it was more likely that it was a bug.

why would it be more likely a bug and not something he got paid to put in there?

Now you're adding in the idea that he may have been paid to put it in.. I just don't see why that would be very likely.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: distro
By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Fri Dec 22 2017 01:17 am

lol.. Although I wonder if it could at least compile a command-line
application? Technically, such an application would be a Win32/Win64
application.

Yes, you can compile a command-line/console application (with the gcc included in the Ubuntu/bash package for Windows 10), but No, it does not generate a Win32/Win64 application.

Here an example 'file' output from a file built with gcc:

a.out: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.32, BuildID[sha1]=cc265875d07ab2d80e5c0a5c7543eca87a215d5d, not stripped

And here's one built on the same system using a Windows tool-chain (targeting Win32/GUI):

a.exe: PE32 executable (console) Intel 80386, for MS Windows

And targeting Win32/console:

a.exe: PE32 executable (GUI) Intel 80386, for MS Windows

So it really is a complete Linux environment inside Windows, not just another command shell.

I see.. Interesting that Microsoft is including such an environment and those tools in Windows.

Nightfox

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open source is NOT a strength. it's a weakness. you are only as strong as your
weakest link and open source software can have random unqualified >'contributers', messing with code. that's a fact.

So can commercial products.

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Re: Re: distro
By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Dec 21 2017 10:24 pm

open source is NOT a strength. it's a weakness. you are only as strong your weakest link and open source software can have random unqualified 'contributers', messing with code. that's a fact.

Ummmmm..... no.

As has been stated already, I'm pretty sure Linux has a review process so th NI>any random code doesn't permanently become part of Linux.

Absolutely.


* SLMR 2.1a * "Bother!" said Pooh, as he dropped another white rhino.

---
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Re: Re: distro
By: Nightfox to MRO on Fri Dec 22 2017 11:40 am

Re: Re: distro
By: MRO to Nightfox on Fri Dec 22 2017 01:40 am

Software bugs happen. I think it was more likely that it was a bug.

why would it be more likely a bug and not something he got paid to put in there?

Now you're adding in the idea that he may have been paid to put it in.. I just don't see why that would be very likely.

you dont understand how this 'bug' was advantagious?
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Re: Re: distro
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Fri Dec 22 2017 06:15 pm

open source is NOT a strength. it's a weakness. you are only as strong as your
weakest link and open source software can have random unqualified >'contributers', messing with code. that's a fact.

So can commercial products.

there's a higher likelyhood in open source.
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Re: Re: distro
By: MRO to Nightfox on Fri Dec 22 2017 01:39 am

As has been stated already, I'm pretty sure Linux has a review process
so that any random code doesn't permanently become part of Linux.

heartbleed. 2 years.

You don't know what you're talking about.

1. Heartbleed was a bug in OpenSSL. OpenSSL is not "part of Linux". it is a cryptographic library/toolkit. It is available and used on Solaris, Linux, MacOS, QNX, the various BSD OSes, OpenVMS, Microsoft Windows and even OS/400. I think there's an OS/2 port as well, but don't hold me to that.

2. Heartbleed was a mistake, an actual bug in a way a thing was implemented. Not malicious code. The fix was to implement the thing a different way.

3. Heartbleed was fixed the same day the bug was publicly disclosed.
CVE-2014-0160. It was fixed by two developers that currently work at Google.

DaiTengu

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---
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So can commercial products.

But commercial product have less 'eyes' on the code so it's easier to keep
bugs around, with a smaller staff you can't tackle everything all at ounce.

In a way a commercial product is more like "security by obfuscation" because not having the source code you can't spot and exploit vulnerability.

But for the same reason you are weak, because open source you'll have a lot more people examining the code and be able to point out and event correct deficiency.

Also if a firm go belly up your stuck with no evolution and support when with an open source project someone else is free to pick it up.

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So can commercial products.

there's a higher likelyhood in open source.

With all of the Windows exploits over the years, I think it is pot-kettle-black.

---
■ SLMR 2.1a ■ It's the Bucket woman! She'll sing at me!!!
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You don't know what you're talking about.
1. Heartbleed was a bug in OpenSSL. OpenSSL is not "part of Linux". it is a cryptographic library/toolkit. It is available and used on Solaris, Linux, MacOS, QNX, the various BSD OSes, OpenVMS, Microsoft Windows and even OS/400. think there's an OS/2 port as well, but don't hold me to that.

So basically it affected Windows and Macs, too? :)

---
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Re: Re: distro
By: MRO to Nightfox on Fri Dec 22 2017 09:03 pm

Now you're adding in the idea that he may have been paid to put it
in.. I just don't see why that would be very likely.

you dont understand how this 'bug' was advantagious?

Any software flaw like this could be advantageous for someone who'd want to exploit it.. Pretty much any software will have bugs in it eventually though, including closed-source software. If you look at the list of Windows updates, for instance, there are a lot of security fixes from Microsoft. Just because there are security flaws, that doesn't mean someone intentionally put them in the software, and they do get fixed once discovered.

I suppose Heartbleed could have just gone unreported for that long and the media could have not been alerted about it or paid to keep quiet about it.. I just somehow doubt it. Why then suddenly report it and fix it?

Nightfox

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Re: Re: distro
By: Gamgee to NIGHTFOX on Fri Dec 22 2017 08:41 pm

As has been stated already, I'm pretty sure Linux has a review process so th NI>any random code doesn't permanently become part of Linux.

Absolutely.

HAHAHA
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Re: Re: distro
By: Ennev to Dumas Walker on Sat Dec 23 2017 09:49 am

Also if a firm go belly up your stuck with no evolution and support when with an open source project someone else is free to pick it up.

or it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code until it's a shadow of its former self.
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Re: Re: distro
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Sat Dec 23 2017 10:25 am

So can commercial products.

there's a higher likelyhood in open source.

With all of the Windows exploits over the years, I think it is pot-kettle-black.

i'm not comparing windows and linux.
linux has its share of dangerous exploits. i'm just saying that open source is not safe and people shouldnt blindly consider it as such.
the best way to hide something is out in the open and thats why things like heartbleed went on for years.
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Re: Re: distro
By: Nightfox to MRO on Sat Dec 23 2017 12:10 pm

I suppose Heartbleed could have just gone unreported for that long and the media could have not been alerted about it or paid to keep quiet about it.. I just somehow doubt it. Why then suddenly report it and fix it?

someone alerted the public to the issue.
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Re: Re: distro
By: Dumas Walker to DAITENGU on Sat Dec 23 2017 10:38 am

You don't know what you're talking about.
1. Heartbleed was a bug in OpenSSL. OpenSSL is not "part of Linux". it is a cryptographic library/toolkit. It is available and used on Solaris, Linux, MacOS, QNX, the various BSD OSes, OpenVMS, Microsoft Windows and even OS/400. think there's an OS/2 port as well, but don't hold me to that.

So basically it affected Windows and Macs, too? :)

If Windows the Mac computers ran a TLS/SSL server that used OpenSSL, yes. Microsoft's IIS for example, does not use OpenSSL. Apache and Tomcat for Windows, for example, do use OpenSSL, so they were vulnerable.

digital man

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Also if a firm go belly up your stuck with no evolution and support when with >an open source project someone else is free to pick it up.

I know DOS is dead and all, but one product I wish would have been released open source when the owner abandonded it was Desqview... well, that and
QEMM. Someone bought Quarterdeck, IIRC, and then let those products die.

---
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Re: Re: distro
By: Dumas Walker to ENNEV on Sat Dec 23 2017 06:14 pm

I know DOS is dead and all, but one product I wish would have been released open source when the owner abandonded it was Desqview... well, that and QEMM. Someone bought Quarterdeck, IIRC, and then let those products die.

That would have been interesting. I'm not sure what development would have been done on it if it was open-sourced though.. I know there are open-source DOS projects still around (FreeDOS and OpenDOS), but it seems there isn't much of any official DOS support anymore and hasn't been for a long time. If someone is going to run DOS these days, it would probably be on an old PC or in an emulation environment, and in either case, I'd expect the original QEMM and Desqview to work (hopefully). If it would need tweaks to work in emulated machine, then perhaps it would be useful to open-source it.

Nightfox

---
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As has been stated already, I'm pretty sure Linux has a review process NI>any random code doesn't permanently become part of Linux.

Absolutely.

HAHAHA

Not sure what that is supposed to mean, other than show that you don't understand how open source / Linux software development works.

You should do a little homework so you can understand. Just for
starters, ALL code that becomes a permanent part of Linux is approved by
ONLY one or two guys. You can easily find out their names if you want
to. Impress us and come back with what you find out!


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Re: Re: distro
By: Ennev to Dumas Walker on Sat Dec 23 2017 09:49 am

Also if a firm go belly up your stuck with no evolution and support when with an open source project someone else is free to pick it up.

or it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code until it's a shad MR>of its former self.

Once again you show that you don't understand how open source software development works. Bravo!


* SLMR 2.1a * "Bother!" said Pooh, as he inserted the suppository.

---
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Re: Re: distro
By: Gamgee to MRO on Sat Dec 23 2017 09:49 pm

As has been stated already, I'm pretty sure Linux has a review process NI>any random code doesn't permanently become part of Linux.

Absolutely.

HAHAHA

Not sure what that is supposed to mean, other than show that you don't understand how open source / Linux software development works.

You should do a little homework so you can understand. Just for
starters, ALL code that becomes a permanent part of Linux is approved by ONLY one or two guys. You can easily find out their names if you want
to. Impress us and come back with what you find out!

you guys are trying to WIN the argument by CHANGING the argument.
i'm not playing that game.

i'm not going to do homework for you and i'm not here to impress you.
i think this is the first time i've seen you post as well.
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Re: Re: distro
By: Gamgee to MRO on Sat Dec 23 2017 09:50 pm

or it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code until it's a shad MR>of its former self.

Once again you show that you don't understand how open source software development works. Bravo!

first, you are quoting me on things i have not said.

or it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code until it's a shadow of its former self.

also i have seen this happen with my own eyes
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Re: Re: distro
By: MRO to Gamgee on Sat Dec 23 2017 11:12 pm

or it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code

shad MR>>until it's a of its former self.

Once again you show that you don't understand how open source software
development works. Bravo!

first, you are quoting me on things i have not said.

I saw you post what he quoted in an earlier message.

or it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code until it's
a shadow of its former self.

also i have seen this happen with my own eyes

That's the same thing that he quoted above.

Nightfox

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i'm not comparing windows and linux.
linux has its share of dangerous exploits. i'm just saying that open source is
not safe and people shouldnt blindly consider it as such.

I would tend to agree with this statement. Open source is no more safe
than anything else. Back when Windows had an overwhelming dominance, most exploits were written for it. Now that linux (and other open source) have
been around for awhile, no doubt it is making a better target of itself.

---
■ SLMR 2.1a ■ Does anybody here remember Vera Lynn?
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That would have been interesting. I'm not sure what development would have been done on it if it was open-sourced though.. I know there are open-source

Well, I am thinking more "at the time" than now. It still had room for a
few improvements as machines got more powerful, and probably had a bug or
two that could have been fixed. IIRC, when it was abandonded, it was still
the only true multitasker that was readily available to the general
public... well, besides OS/2 multitasking.

I have also wondered what Desqview (and Desqview/X) might have become if it
had been open source and could have been ported to *nix. :)

---
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or it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code until it's a shadow of its former self.

also i have seen this happen with my own eyes

Some versions of old door games that were open sources, or hacked, come to mind.

---
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Re: Re: distro
By: Nightfox to MRO on Sat Dec 23 2017 10:12 pm

first, you are quoting me on things i have not said.

I saw you post what he quoted in an earlier message.

he was quoting another person and his editor was tacking on mro> in the quoting.

That's the same thing that he quoted above.

you're confused. ennev posted part of those quotes.
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Re: Re: distro
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Sun Dec 24 2017 08:56 am

or it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code until it's a shadow of its former self.

also i have seen this happen with my own eyes

Some versions of old door games that were open sources, or hacked, come to mind.

it's not just old stuff. its been happening for a long time. we can give a lot of bbs related examples, though. it's not just in the bbs world.

what i'm saying in this whole thread is just because something is open source, it doesnt mean that its SAFER. infact, there have been many many issues that have slipped past hundreds of people.

you cant blindly trust anybody[people you do not know], or anything.
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Re: Re: distro
By: Dumas Walker to NIGHTFOX on Sun Dec 24 2017 08:55 am

I have also wondered what Desqview (and Desqview/X) might have become if it had been open source and could have been ported to *nix. :)

*nix has native support for multi-tasking.. I'm not sure what the advantage would be of having DesqView ported to *nix. Unless it had other features that I've forgotten about.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: distro
By: MRO to Nightfox on Sun Dec 24 2017 01:44 pm

he was quoting another person and his editor was tacking on mro> in the quoting.

That's because you wrote what was being quoted.

That's the same thing that he quoted above.

you're confused. ennev posted part of those quotes.

I don't think I'm confused. You included the same quote of yours, one with the mro in front of it and again without.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: distro
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Sun Dec 24 2017 08:39 am

i'm not comparing windows and linux.
linux has its share of dangerous exploits. i'm just saying that open source is
not safe and people shouldnt blindly consider it as such.

I would tend to agree with this statement. Open source is no more safe
than anything else. Back when Windows had an overwhelming dominance, most exploits were written for it. Now that linux (and other open source) have been around for awhile, no doubt it is making a better target of itself.

I think open source software has the *potential* to be more safe than closed source, but that really depends on how many people or organizations are interested in improving it. With closed source, you only have one organziation with the ability to improve the quality, while with open source, you have the *potential* for a large number of organizations and indivuduals to look/scan/test/improve.

That said, I think most open source software doesn't really get any more attention to quality than it would if it were closed. <shrug>

digital man

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Re: Re: distro
By: Gamgee to MRO on Sat Dec 23 2017 09:49 pm

As has been stated already, I'm pretty sure Linux has a review process NI>any random code doesn't permanently become part of Linux.

Absolutely.

HAHAHA

Not sure what that is supposed to mean, other than show that you don't understand how open source / Linux software development works.

You should do a little homework so you can understand. Just for starters, ALL code that becomes a permanent part of Linux is approved by ONLY one or two guys. You can easily find out their names if you want to. Impress us and come back with what you find out!

you guys are trying to WIN the argument by CHANGING the argument.
i'm not playing that game.

Huh? Are you claiming you didn't say that "anybody can put any random
code into Linux" (I'm paraphrasing there)? I didn't change the
argument, I simply said that wasn't true. There is VERY strict control
on what code gets added/modified in Linux. Really, it's true.

i'm not going to do homework for you and i'm not here to impress you.

I already know the names, and was using that as a point to help you
understand how Linux development works. I guess you still don't know.

i think this is the first time i've seen you post as well.

Probably not the first, but what would that matter, anyway? I recently
got back into calling BBS's and using offline mail.


* SLMR 2.1a * "Bother!" said Pooh, as he puked on Christopher Robin.

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Re: Re: distro
By: Gamgee to MRO on Sat Dec 23 2017 09:50 pm

or it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code until it's shad MR>of its former self.

Once again you show that you don't understand how open source software development works. Bravo!

first, you are quoting me on things i have not said.

You're claiming you didn't say the above about losers bastardizing the
code?

or it can be taken over by losers who bastardize the code until it's a shadow of its former self.

also i have seen this happen with my own eyes

Generally speaking, if losers screw up the code that way, the program in question is no longer used by others (since it now sucks), and said
program is abandoned/ignored. The correct term for this would be losers
who "fork" some code into something else, but the original code is not
"taken over" or ruined. Please try to learn more about this.


* SLMR 2.1a * "Bother!" said Pooh, as the dirigible popped.

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■ Synchronet ■ Diamond Mine Online - bbs.dmine.net - Fredericksburg, VA USA

Re: Re: distro
By: Nightfox to MRO on Sun Dec 24 2017 12:29 pm

I don't think I'm confused. You included the same quote of yours, one with the mro in front of it and again without.

no it had mro for both

do you want a fucking screenshot or will you stop being autistic
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■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: distro
By: Gamgee to MRO on Sun Dec 24 2017 04:12 pm

Huh? Are you claiming you didn't say that "anybody can put any random
code into Linux" (I'm paraphrasing there)? I didn't change the

yes you are paraphrasing!

I already know the names, and was using that as a point to help you understand how Linux development works. I guess you still don't know.

well good for you
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Re: Re: distro
By: Gamgee to MRO on Sun Dec 24 2017 04:15 pm

first, you are quoting me on things i have not said.

You're claiming you didn't say the above about losers bastardizing the
code?

oh jesus christ.
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Re: Re: distro
By: MRO to Nightfox on Sun Dec 24 2017 09:38 pm

I don't think I'm confused. You included the same quote of yours, one
with the mro in front of it and again without.

no it had mro for both

do you want a fucking screenshot or will you stop being autistic

I got a screenshot for you: http://www.digitaldistortionbbs.com/screenshots/mro-quotes_2017-12-23.png

Nightfox

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■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

Re: Re: distro
By: Nightfox to MRO on Sun Dec 24 2017 10:31 pm

no it had mro for both

do you want a fucking screenshot or will you stop being autistic

I got a screenshot for you: http://www.digitaldistortionbbs.com/screenshots/mro-quotes_2017-12-23.png

like i said, you are confused. stop worrying about it.
that isnt even the correct thing to quote.

i explained what his editor did.
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@VIA: VERT
@MSGID: <5A40733F.959.dove-nix@bbses.info>
@REPLY: <5A4028CE.6562.dove-nix@dmine.net>
Re: Re: distro
By: Gamgee to MRO on Sun Dec 24 2017 04:15 pm

first, you are quoting me on things i have not said.

You're claiming you didn't say the above about losers bastardizing the code?

oh jesus christ.

Well, it's his birthday.

You didn't answer the question, though.


* SLMR 2.1a * "Bother!" said Pooh, as he strafed the lifeboats.

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■ Synchronet ■ Diamond Mine Online - bbs.dmine.net - Fredericksburg, VA USA

Re: Re: distro
By: Dumas Walker to DAITENGU on Sat Dec 23 2017 10:38 am

You don't know what you're talking about.
1. Heartbleed was a bug in OpenSSL. OpenSSL is not "part of Linux".
it is a cryptographic library/toolkit. It is available and used on
Solaris, Linux, MacOS, QNX, the various BSD OSes, OpenVMS, Microsoft
Windows and even OS/400. think there's an OS/2 port as well, but don't
hold me to that.

So basically it affected Windows and Macs, too? :)

Any place that used the OpenSSL Library to do A Thing. The exploit was specifically written for the https protocol, but it likely could have been exploited other ways, too.

DaiTengu

... Milhouse, we live in the age of cooties! - Bart Simpson

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■ Synchronet ■ War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com

you cant blindly trust anybody[people you do not know], or anything.

Agreed!

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■ SLMR 2.1a ■ "Mmmmmmmm.....pie pants."
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * 1-502-875-8938

*nix has native support for multi-tasking.. I'm not sure what the advantage would be of having DesqView ported to *nix. Unless it had other features that
I've forgotten about.

I think I was thinking as a desktop flavor... tap the alt key a couple of times, etc....

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■ SLMR 2.1a ■ "My eyeballs nearly popped out!"
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * 1-502-875-8938

no it had mro for both
do you want a fucking screenshot or will you stop being autistic

I think you were channeling through another user. :D

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■ SLMR 2.1a ■ "Wanna give Honest Abe another term in the Oval Office?"
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * 1-502-875-8938

Re: Re: distro
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Tue Dec 26 2017 05:07 pm

no it had mro for both
do you want a fucking screenshot or will you stop being autistic

I think you were channeling through another user. :D

probably someone under control of my bbs botnet that kk4qbn accused me of running.
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probably someone under control of my bbs botnet that kk4qbn accused me of running.

LOL.

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■ SLMR 2.1a ■ "Tryin' is the first step towards failure." - Homer
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * 1-502-875-8938